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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Feb 2, 2010 8:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

I responded with some factoids about Burroughs personal life because you brought up Kerouac's issues. And you did comment on his writing, simply by stating that Burroughs was better on every level, so I was compelled to respond on both of those issues.

Personal issues aside, the original poster asked if Kerouac's Big Sur had much impact on the GD during their formative years and I responded to that question. I do not think that I know Jerry well enough to speak for him or think for him, but I have read enough biographical works about him to know a little.

If you don't believe me, do your own research. "Garcia: An American Life" by Blair Jackson is one of the best, if not the best and most thorough biographies of JG available. Check out all the times that Kerouac is referenced in this book here and read the context and you will see where I am coming from: http://books.google.ca/books?id=JouSOka9hFEC&;printsec=frontcover&dq=blair+jackson+garcia&source=bl&ots=UK3vw_6UI8&sig=uEY0c62uMID2-7IZQs_sHofIhYA&hl=en&ei=G_1oS_I3ypaUB6iijI4I&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=kerouac&f=true

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Feb 2, 2010 10:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

It's understood that his writing had some impact on Jerry,I was not disputing that,I take issue with the extent his influence might have had on their music as opposed to your take on it.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Feb 2, 2010 10:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

Thank you for clarifying. The language I used in implying Kerouac's spontaneous prose as a direct model for Garcia's soloing style was too strong and I should have added an IMHO. Still, I think Kerouac's writing was important to the formation of Garcia's artistic aesthetics.

I quote a relevant passage from "Garcia" during which he speaks of the impact that Ken Nordine's word-jazz albums had on him and then cites Kerouac as being an influence.

"You've got to go back to seventeen-year-old-me growing up in the Bay Area when I first heard Ken's record - "Word Jazz" and "Son of Word Jazz". For me, listening to those records was like a religious experience. It was not only a completely different way of thinking, but a fantastic combination of words and music that wasn't songs. It wasn't poetry and it wasn't songs exactly and it was wonderfully peculiar. It was like the kinds of things you think that only you think about, maybe. That was from a time in my life I was reading Kerouac and I first started smoking pot somewhere in there; a lot of things that were formative and significant and helped build my own sense of aesthetics from from right there."

The extent to which these experiences influenced Garcia's playing is definitely up for debate, but they show that he indeed did cite Kerouac as an influence. As he states himself, his outlook on art in general was significantly impacted in part by Kerouac's writing. There are many more references in the book regarding this author's influence on his lifestyle in general.

To your credit, Burroughs was cited a number of times in this book but never directly by Garcia. He was cited by Kesey in 1964 as being one of the people trying to do "it" in a new way, so yes Burroughs was definitely a respected artist in the Prankster circles that the GD were part of. I am also certain Garcia read Burroughs and enjoyed his work, but for some reason there is no recorded public statement of this credit. If you could enlighten me as to any of the sources that influenced your opinion that he was a greater influence than Kerouac, I would be humbly put in my place and rightfully so.

Thanks for engaging in discussion :)

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Feb 3, 2010 10:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

I was not implying a direct correlation between Burroughs and Garcia,it just seems to me if he was going to be influenced by a beat authors lifestyle he would have more in common with Burroughs.Time frame wise Junky was published in 53' and the more adventurous Naked Lunch in 59',so they too could have been read in Jerry's impressionable years along with On the Road in 57'.I read in a book about Garcia that they did meet in the 80's in Amsterdam when the Dead were there for those Melk Weg shows,that is the only interaction I'm aware of.It was fun conversing with you on this subject,it's always good to take in new perspectives and information.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Feb 3, 2010 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

It has been fun - I really appreciate it when peers are able to be respectfully critical of each other's ideas/actions. This kind of honesty does wonders for self-awareness and growth :)

I have to say, I love Burroughs' work. I read Junky in a couple days as I just couldn't put it down. Naked Lunch was my introduction to him and I thought of it as my "black bible" in part because the cover of the copy I had was completely black without any text on the outside. And then when you opened it up it was full of grotesque yet profound revelation about human nature and society in general...

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Feb 3, 2010 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

Have you seen the Naked Lunch movie???

Here's an excerpt of the asshole that talked scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKk0eFiHYpg

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 3, 2010 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

ORNETTE COLEMAN! - did the soundtrack. It all comes back to Kevin Bacon (or is that Jer?)

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Feb 3, 2010 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

Wow, I had no idea bout Ornette Coleman soundtrack credits! Cool!

This is one of the weirdest movies I have ever seen, and appropriately so! Love the scene where he is an exterminator and his wife gets all addicted to roach poison.

Where does the Hollow Man fit in?

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Feb 3, 2010 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dharma Bums

The lavatory has been locked for three hours solid…. I think they are using it for an operating room….

NURSE: “I can’t find her pulse, doctor.”

DR. BENWAY: “Maybe she got it up her snatch in a finger stall.”

NURSE: “Adrenalin, doctor?”

DR. BENWAY: “The night porter shot it all up for kicks.” He looks around and picks up one of those rubber vacuum cups at the end of a stick they use to unstop toilets…. He advances on the patient…. “Make an incision, Doctor Limpf,” he says to his appalled assistant…. “I’m going to massage the heart.”

Dr. Limpf shrugs and begins the incision. Dr. Benway washes the suction cup by swishing it around in the toilet-bowl….

NURSE: “Shouldn’t it be sterilized, doctor?”

DR. BENWAY: “Very likely but there’s no time.” He sits on the suction cup like a cane seat watching his assistant make the incision…. “You young squirts couldn’t lance a pimple without an electric vibrating scalpel with automatic drain and suture…. Soon we’ll be operating by remote control on patients we never see…. We’ll be nothing but button pushers. All the skill is going out of surgery…. All the know-how and make-do… Did I ever tell you about the time I performed an appendectomy with a rusty sardine can? And once I was caught short without instrument one and removed a uterine tumor with my teeth. That was in the Upper Effendi, and besides…”

DR. LIMPF: “The incision is ready, doctor.”

Dr. Benway forces the cup into the incision and works it up and down. Blood spurts all over the doctors, the nurse and the wall…. The cup makes a horrible sucking sound.

NURSE: “I think she’s gone, doctor.”

DR. BENWAY: “Well, it’s all in the day’s work.” He walks across the room to a medicine cabinet…. “Some fucking drug addict has cut my cocaine with Saniflush! Nurse! Send the boy out to fill this RX on the double!”

Dr. Benway is operating in an auditorium filled with students: “Now, boys, you won’t see this operation performed very often and there’s a reason for that…. You see it has absolutely no medical value. No one knows what the purpose of it originally was or if it had a purpose at all. Personally I think it was a pure artistic creation from the beginning.

“Just as a bull fighter with his skill and knowledge extricates himself from danger he has himself invoked, so in this operation the surgeon deliberately endangers his patient, and then, with incredible speed and celerity, rescues him from death at the last possible split second…. Did any of you ever see Dr. Tetrazzini perform? I say perform advisedly because his operations were performances. He would start by throwing a scalpel across the room into the patient and then make his entrance like a ballet dancer. His speed was incredible: ‘I don’t give them time to die,’ he would say. Tumors put him in a frenzy of rage. ‘Fucking undisciplined cells!’ he would snarl, advancing on the tumor like a knife-fighter.”

A young man leaps down into the operating theatre and, whipping out a scalpel, advances on the patient.

DR. BENWAY: “An espontaneo! Stop him before he guts my patient!”

(Espontaneo is a bull-fighting term for a member of the audience who leaps down into the ring, pulls out a concealed cape and attempts a few passes with the bull before he is dragged out of the ring.)

The orderlies scuffle with the espontaneo, who is finally ejected from the hall. The anesthetist takes advantage of the confusion to pry a large gold filling from the patient’s mouth….